Does anyone know any loopholes to the penal code that allow someone in California to own a WWI knuckleduster trench knife?
Is there such thing as a collector's license?
Spoke with a store that sells them. They are legally allowed to sell them because of their sellers permit. but he said that TECHNICALLY I am not allowed to own them.
State laws override Federal.
Is there such thing as a collector's license?
Spoke with a store that sells them. They are legally allowed to sell them because of their sellers permit. but he said that TECHNICALLY I am not allowed to own them.
State laws override Federal.
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Re: Collecting in California
Thu, February 8, 2007 - 7:28 AMI don't know California law, but there MUST be some sort of 'Collector's Law' in California.
In Canada you can own any kind of firearms as a collector so long as they are rendered inoperable, such as pouring cement down the barrel or removing parts such as the hammer or the firing pin. I suppose technically this means you could legally own a rifle and then just stick the firing pin into it when you needed it, etc. But I won't get into that.
I would assume that you could legally own a WW I knuckleduster trench knife if you had it mounted in a display case. After all, this renders the knife impractical for use as a weapon.
The law revolves around the 'knuckleduster' aspect of the knife as a form of prohibited weapon, and it's similar to the laws here in Ontario regarding such weapons. I would think that for any convicition to stand there would have to be an element of 'mens rea' or 'a guilty mind' about it.
If you had a knuckleduster trench knife hidden under your mattress then it might be seen as 'possession of an illegal weapon.' However, if the trench knife was in a locked (or closed) display case in plain sight then it would be clearly a display piece, and not intended for use as a weapon. This would be especially true if there was other WW I memorabilia in or around the display case such as patches, medals, buttons, photos, etc.
You can check with your local Police department in regards to this law. -
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Re: Collecting in California
Thu, February 8, 2007 - 8:43 AMyea, that is the problem... so far.. noone is confirming.
I also though about things like being a "Prop master" for movies. They can have shurikens, or switchblades for movies. Also illegal.
gotta be a way. -
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Re: Collecting in California
Thu, February 8, 2007 - 8:56 AMI would like to know also, as I am hoping to purchase a sword or two by years' end and need to know what state and local law dictates (I live in Santa Clara, CA)...
Also what are the laws regarding the importing of swords and daggers from the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Nepal, etc?
One would think so long as the country is not embargoed...
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Re: Collecting in California
Thu, February 8, 2007 - 9:46 AMIn California ownership is seldom the real issue - the real issue being intent. Your intent is to collect so you should be fine (besides the knuckleduster is an antique which is treated differently under the law, also hand crafted blades are artand therefore treated differently). If you have to transport any weapon then do so in a locked case and you should be fine.
As for importing blades in general, one needs and import-export license (think about it, the US allows kitchen knives to be imported from all over the world and many of those are over 12" long).
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Re: Collecting in California
Thu, February 8, 2007 - 1:55 PMowning swords is easy... no restrictions whatsoever.
as long as not embargoed. -
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Re: Collecting in California
Thu, February 8, 2007 - 2:59 PMMy daughter collect swords and has often shown them to family friends...police officers. No problem.
I've seen WW1 trench knives in private collections. No problem.
I have some knives which technically are felonies to even possess...but again there are in a collection.
In California a sharpened WW2 dagger is felony...but so far no SWAT team has broken down my door
and confiscated my commando blades.
Just don't carry them.
You won't have any problems. -
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Re: Collecting in California
Thu, February 8, 2007 - 3:04 PMowning one is one thing... having a collection... a ROOM full of items in another. I would rather be safe than sorry. -
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Re: Collecting in California
Thu, February 8, 2007 - 8:38 PMIf you really want safe then talk to a lawyer, not us. I'm not trying to be a jerk but in general we aren't lawyers and could be held responsible if you if you acted on what we said.
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Re: Collecting in California
Fri, February 9, 2007 - 1:23 AMYa I think I will ask a police officer or even some sellers such as dude from Kris Cutlery, etc.
Would ask guy from www.ValiantCo.com, but... it seems that place is no longer up as of yesterday...
I'll post my findings as I discover them.
~John -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Collecting in California
Fri, February 9, 2007 - 1:24 AMNVM ValiantCo is back online...
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Re: Collecting in California
Fri, February 9, 2007 - 7:09 AMI would walk down to the local Sheriffs office or District Attorney's, find someone with some rank and ask them straight up and get their business card. Tell them thank you and go home with a reasonably informed answer.
Most Law Enforcement are the good guys (and gals) and appreciate you trying to do the right thing and are usually pretty straight forward.
Good Luck
Jason -
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Re: Collecting in California
Fri, February 9, 2007 - 8:28 AMYa, either walk or "let my fingers do the walking."
:P
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Re: Collecting in California
Fri, February 9, 2007 - 9:52 AMI appreciate all your input guys...
I have gone through many of the processes.. this is why I was looking for anyone who actually knew of a loophole.
want to try a fun test. Call any police station... or ask any police officer. What the length law for is to carry a knife in California. You will get 10 answers... 2 1/2 inches.. the length of your palm (who's palm??) many things.
The truth is, sadly, many don't actually know. According to the Penal code. there IS no length law. UNLESS it is being taken into a school.
If anyone has knowledge, other than speculation, I would love to hear from you.
Thank you again for all your ideas.
Knowledge is power. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Collecting in California
Fri, February 9, 2007 - 3:06 PMCarrying switchblades and stillettos (sp) are proscribed by California law without a concealed weapons permit except as a theaterical piece (to, during or from the event). Those are the only restrictions, beyond the ones for conceal weapons, that I know of.
As far as I know there are no ownership restrictions and transporting an item is not the same as carrying. It all comes down to intent, which is in part why you get different answers. The other is that different cities have their own restrictions.
Again ask a lawyer and get it in writing. With that, in court you can claim "friend of the court" status because you did due diligance making it very unlikely that you would go to jail or be fined (so I understand). -
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Re: Collecting in California
Fri, February 9, 2007 - 3:09 PMSpeaking of "friend of the court," you could petition a judge to get a ruling. If the judge says yes, then you are absolutely protected as long as you are within his ruling. -
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Re: Collecting in California
Fri, February 9, 2007 - 3:17 PMok, THAT is an interesting concept. -
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Re: Collecting in California
Sat, February 10, 2007 - 7:31 AMAsk a judge and get a ruling, time consuming, but brilliant!
Keep us posted.
Bliss
Jason -
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Re: Collecting in California
Sat, February 10, 2007 - 8:33 AMTalked to my uncle who is a lawyer... he says the only way to bring it in front of a judge, would be an attempt to overturn the penal code. In otherwords.. me, taking on the California Attorney General. Going to talk to my aunt today... who was a DA for 25 years.
wish me luck. -
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Re: Collecting in California
Sat, February 10, 2007 - 10:45 AMIt isn't so much overturning the penalcode as clairifying an issue. You will probably have an easier time that way - after all you aren't trying to change the laws about carrying a weapon, just want to know what is legal to own as part of a collection.
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Re: Collecting in California
Tue, May 22, 2007 - 1:21 AMA California CCW does not permit the carrying of knives or any other weapons. It is for firearms only, and it will only cover the firearms listed on the license. Any knife or other weapon can only be carried in such a manner as permitted under state law and local ordinances.
Only a switchblade with a blade-length less that 2 inches may be carried, regardless of any CCW. Even if your switchblade is a "theatrical piece", if you transport anything by car, it would have to be in the trunk; having it anywhere in the passenger or driver's compartment of a vehicle is a misdemeanor.
Don't trust any cop to tell you what is legal in CA, and what isn't. Most of them don't even know the laws, themselves. -
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Re: Collecting in California
Tue, May 29, 2007 - 6:54 AMMick, you live in california? That's why your paranoid. you should move out here with us good ole boy hillbilly's so you can relax a little bit.
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Re: Collecting in California
Sun, June 10, 2007 - 1:04 AMThose are not the only restrictions. Check 12020 a) 1) of www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate and you'll find knuckles to be a no-no. One more reason for me to be glad I'm not Californain!!
Glen, you might be able to get the trench knife defined as a "curio or relic."
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Re: Collecting in California
Sat, May 19, 2007 - 8:03 AMI have a large collection my self and several are "illegal" but as per. the calif. penal code thats only to carry, sell ( with out a sellers permit/ ) or transport with the intent to carry or sell. a privet collection does not have restrictions. If you wanted do put them on display in public would be different. and does have legal guide lines for that. -
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Re: Collecting in California
Mon, May 21, 2007 - 10:03 AMIf you read the penal code.. the word is Posess. Asking a lawyer.. They decided it meant to OWN... NOT just carry, sell, or transport -
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Re: Collecting in California
Mon, May 21, 2007 - 1:14 PMTrue. but that does not extend to privet property. -
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Re: Collecting in California
Mon, May 21, 2007 - 1:17 PMDoes it not? do you have anything that can confirm that?
(not trying to be snotty, I swear) I am trying to find a way for this to work.
After talking to a woman (my Aunt) who worked as a DA, she says that 12020 DOES apply to private property -
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Re: Collecting in California
Mon, May 21, 2007 - 3:24 PMIts based off whats called "case law". I will put togeater the info this week and get it to you.
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