I've never actually handled a switchblade but with all the assisted opening knives on the market these days, I find myself wondering if it really matters? Do they have any benefits over the assisted opening knives that've appeared in the last few years?
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Mon, May 8, 2006 - 5:12 PMYeah, the switchblades earn you jail time. There should be no real difference between them in terms of functionality, however a "switchblade" really is only good for fighting - most of the rest that I've seen have a more general utility design to them. -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Sun, May 28, 2006 - 10:53 PMThe really sad thing is that switchblades were originally developed for affluent gentlemen. The idea was that a dapper fellow could open his knive without risking his manicure!
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Tue, June 27, 2006 - 12:07 AMI know that switchblades, or any knife using mechanical means to open (Gravity blades, angel blades, butterfly knives) are illegal in Canada...as well as many other countries (such as the UK). However, carrying a knife on your person is legal in Canada, even for self-defence purposes...so long as the knife is not concealed. It's generally good to have a purpose for why you are carrying a knife when the Police ask though, besides 'for self-defence'. Generally, you should be able to explain that your knife is a tool (carving, opening boxes, etc.)
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Thu, July 20, 2006 - 3:34 PMWith the thumb hole/stud/oval/etc of most "tactical" folders these days there's not much advantage for an auto anymore. I've compared my opening speed with similar size autos and Spyderco's and found the difference to be insignificant.
Of course the knife that is faster than any switchblade is the fixed-blade knife! (Kinda like the fastest reload is a second gun.)
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Wed, October 4, 2006 - 11:46 AMWhen I was interning at a TV station, the head of the graphics dept carried a switchblade on him so when he was on a ladder he could open it one handed. I showed him my spyderco and he switched... Kept him from risking getting arrested he said. I can open my blade faster than his because mine was clipped to my pocket. no fishing.
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Wed, October 4, 2006 - 1:38 PMThere are no major advantages/disadvantages to either assisted, powered or manual opened knives, just personal taste. The spirit of the law that made switchblades illegal was originally to limit the intimidation factor that gangs bearing switchblades had over people and to better allow justice to be done against said gangs. This is completely forgetting two blatantly important facts. 1: knives are an art form first, tool second, and a weapon last; 2: most crimes involving bladed weapons of any sort are committed with common kitchen knives (which happen to be lobbied against as we speak).
Now then, for those of you worried about the legality of owning or carrying a switchblade, realise that it would be highly unlikely for you to be arrested on the sole charge of carrying a switchblade mainly because: how often do you open up your knife in front of an officer? What you should really be worried about is loosing your knife on the off chance that you are ever searched by an officer. Most police understand the spirit of the law but also realize it is within their right to take your pretty knife from you. Both me and my brother carry microtechs and had been searched, we had been lucky enough to still retain our knives, but we know the risks we take in carrying them -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Thu, October 5, 2006 - 2:33 PMIt also seems like the switchblade was a convenient target of blame that would stand up to judicial review. Specific features or accessories that can be well defined in a court were demonized in an effort to curb human behavior. Similar effort have been / continue to be leveled at firearms with the same lack of results. Other than penalizing the honest people for the actions of the dishonest!
If an action is illegal, murder for instance, does it REALLY matter what tool was used?
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Sat, October 7, 2006 - 2:00 AMCrumudgeonator said:
This is completely forgetting two blatantly important facts. 1: knives are an art form first, tool second, and a weapon last; 2: most crimes involving bladed weapons of any sort are committed with common kitchen knives (which happen to be lobbied against as we speak).
Knives are an art form first? Hmm, well this is subjective. However given the number of 'collector's knives' available that seem impractical to use (e.g. a 'KIingon' knife), I would have to agree with you. I tend to think of a knife as a tool first.
Now then, for those of you worried about the legality of owning or carrying a switchblade, realise that it would be highly unlikely for you to be arrested on the sole charge of carrying a switchblade mainly because: how often do you open up your knife in front of an officer? What you should really be worried about is losing your knife on the off chance that you are ever searched by an officer. Most police understand the spirit of the law but also realize it is within their right to take your pretty knife from you. Both me and my brother carry microtechs and had been searched, we had been lucky enough to still retain our knives, but we know the risks we take in carrying them
This is true. However, switchblades are seen as knives which are *always* weapons in the eyes of the law. Some knives, such as military style knives with a blood-groove, are *always* seen as weapons. Note that a bowie knife is a camping/ survival knife...a tool, but a bowie knife with a camoflauge design and a name like 'The Exterminator' might be enough to prove that you were carrying the knife with the intention of using it as a weapon, at least in the eyes of the cops, a Judge and/or jury.
If the cop searching you really wanted to be nasty, you might be charged with 'Possession of a weapon for unlawful purposes'. This is true even if you consent to a search (which you don't have to do), and the cop doesn't have a reason to charge you with anything yet. Mind you, some Cops will even define an ordinary 'swiss army' pocketknife as 'a weapon' if they are in the mood to do so. This would no doubt be overturned by the courts, but there is still the hassle of going to court, getting a lawyer, etc.
I think that if you are carrying a knife, you have to be able to argue that you are carrying it for use as a tool. Saying that you are carrying the knife 'for self-defence' is the wrong answer to give to the Police.
John said:
It also seems like the switchblade was a convenient target of blame that would stand up to judicial review. Specific features or accessories that can be well defined in a court were demonized in an effort to curb human behavior. Similar effort have been / continue to be leveled at firearms with the same lack of results. Other than penalizing the honest people for the actions of the dishonest!
If an action is illegal, murder for instance, does it REALLY matter what tool was used?
No, it doesn't. Stabbing someone to death with a screwdriver or suffocating them with a plastic shopping bag gets you the same amount of time as using a knife on them, or a pistol. I think the main difference lies in *intent*. Since some knives are always seen as weapons, then the argument will be made that you intended to commit homicide with it the minute you took it with you outside. People don't buy switchblades to open up packages, generally. The knife you chose was not a 'weapon at hand' such as a bottle or a brick might be. If you use your knife in self-defence, you had better be able to prove that the other guy had clear intentions to kill or seriously injure you or someone in your care.
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Thu, October 5, 2006 - 2:38 PMMy dad tells a story about Tijuana when he was my age... how there used to be a telephone pole at the border crossing.. and if you were caught trying to bring back in a switchblade... the border guard would take your knife... stab it into the pole, break off the blade, and hand you back the handle. He said it used to look like a porcupine.
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Wed, November 1, 2006 - 3:01 PMTroy said," however a "switchblade" really is only good for fighting ."
James said," a switchblade will always been as a weapon in the eyes of the law."
I would argue that a swichblade is not "only good for fighting" in 2 respects. First the switchblade with its internal mechanisms is more prone to failure due to those mechanisms and therefore makes it less appropriate. Second as a firefighter/paramedic I have had the opportunity to use this type of knife for rescue. Standing in an overturned van with the driver trapped in her seatbelt, I was supporting the backboard with one hand deployed the knife with the other hand thanks to the "button," and cut her free from her seatbelt. She was then lowered on the backboard to a safe position and extricated from the vehicle.
The switchblade was demonized as a weapon used for fighting back in the 50's when they were being carried by the "street gangs." That is what facilitated the laws surrounding the automatics (switchbades.) Depending upon how you, and the given situation, is described by your attorney, that will determine how the knife and your carrying of it, is perceived in court.
With the huge success of assisted openers (AO's), in recent years, there is very little advantage to carrying a swithblade over an AO. In fact many of the AO folders that utilize a "flipper" to start the opening of the knife are simpler to use than an automatic knife. Your index finger will more easily find the flipper along the spine easier than a button along the scale. Also the AO comes without the inherent predudice that plagues the automatic knife (switchblade.)
JMHO -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Wed, November 1, 2006 - 5:10 PMAnother aspect of the AO style of knife is it's a lot harder to have it accidentally open in your pocket. I carried an auto for a very brief time until I nearly impaled myself on the tip when I reached into my pocket (the safety had come off and the blade opened without me knowing). I've never had this problem with any of the "tactical folders" (Spyderco, Benchmade, etc).
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Wed, November 1, 2006 - 6:14 PMA high quality switchblade doesn't fail, but one has to pay through the nose to get one.
Ok, you give a very good example of using a switchblade for something other than fighting, so I over generalized when I said they are really only good for fighting. But be honest, the blade on a classic switchblade is to light for general utility uses and as pointed out elsewhere in this thread they where originally a gentleman's (read: a rich man's) weapon.
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Fri, November 3, 2006 - 9:49 AMTroy I own two Microtech Autos an L-UDT and a Scarab OTF. I know that they are well made and not "prone" to failure. However with the additional mechanisms involved in autos, I would say that my Strider framelock would be stronger and therefore I would be more comfortable relying on it in a crisis. JMO -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Fri, November 3, 2006 - 11:23 AMI don't disagree - simpler systems tend to fail less often than more complex ones. Why do you think more soldiers around the world prefer the AK-47 over the M-16? -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Fri, November 3, 2006 - 5:50 PMUh, ammunition selection? -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Fri, November 3, 2006 - 6:04 PMAh ... no. Not the reason I was thinking of.
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 4:05 AMThat's an interesting point about switchblades, David.
I am curious about the history of switchblade knives. I am thinking that they must have been developed in the Second world War for someone that would benefit from their easy, one handed usage, such as paratroopers for example. -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 7:21 PMIf I recall correctly, they date back to at least the mid 1800's. -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Wed, November 15, 2006 - 9:26 PMWow, right around the time that the 'six-gun' revolver was developed I imagine.
I wonder if there was a specific purpose for having them open with a spring loaded mechanical action? Were they designed specifically as a weapon? -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Thu, November 16, 2006 - 12:57 PMYes, the switchblade was a gentleman's weapon, like the cane-sword. One would have to do research but the switchblade could be much older. -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Fri, November 17, 2006 - 12:18 AMI love cane-swords! I collect them myself. I heard that there was a famous fight between Jim Bowie (inventor of the Bowie knife) and a famous General from the South who armed with a sword-cane. I have no idea who won the fight or what it was about. If the switchblade is as old as you say, it could be as old as the bowie knife (which is of course more of a tool than a weapon).
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Fri, November 17, 2006 - 3:12 PM"If the switchblade is as old as you say, it could be as old as the bowie knife (which is of course more of a tool than a weapon). "
Clearly, you haven't seen a real Bowie - they are over a foot long and several inches wide. They are very much in fact a weapon - right down to the brass back designed to catch oppenents blades. -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Fri, November 17, 2006 - 3:26 PMAre Bowie knives designed primarily to be used as a weapon? I thought that they were designed as more of a hunting knife. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Fri, November 17, 2006 - 3:29 PM"Are Bowie knives designed primarily to be used as a weapon? I thought that they were designed as more of a hunting knife."
Is there are difference when one is hunting bears or Indians or run away slaves? -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Fri, November 17, 2006 - 11:51 PMA design difference perhaps. It seems that any knife can be used as a weapon, or a tool. Some are more suited to be used as weapons, such as stilettos, etc. I had always thought of a Bowie knife as a 'Hunting/ Camping' knife because of it's durability, and of course it would also be an excellent weapon. Stillettos or switchblades, perhaps less so. Given a choice of knives to skin a bear, gut a fish, or carve a spear with you'd probably take the Bowie knife over a switchblade or stiletto.
There are quite a few World War One and World War Two 'Combat knives' which are obviously designed for fighting, and they are based on the Bowie knife. It's easy to see why a soldier would want a hearty, general purpose knife such as the Bowie style. There are a few differences between a 'Camping' Bowie and a 'Fighting' Bowie though, such as the 'blood groove'. The blood groove is a giveaway that the knife was designed to be used as a weapon, although of course it still makes an excellent camping/ hunting knife!
I certainly see where you are coming from when you say that there isn't much difference as far as the knife is concerned between hunting bears, Indians, or runaway slaves (at least in the mid 1800's!). However, I think that the same thing could be said for a 'Hunting' rifle over a 'Fighting' rifle. Both are useful in killing your prey or opponent, but the specialization in function determines the differences in design. -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Sat, November 18, 2006 - 5:43 PMThere is no such thing as a "blood groove" - fullers are there to reduce the weight of a blade. That is their sole function.
The orginal Bowie was a large blade, as I said 12+" long blade and several inches wide. The first Bowie I held was 18" of blade and 3" wide at it's widest. Not a real good choice for most hunting/camping applications.
I wasn't being fusicious about the "hunting Indians or run away slaves" - Bowie wasn't a nice guy by all accounts. Nor was he a poor frontiersman.
See the links:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowie_knife
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bowie -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Sun, November 19, 2006 - 5:19 AMI was reading up on Jim Bowie and bowie knives on Wikipedia before. The fact that he killed a gang of men hired to kill him with the knife certainly points to it's usefulness as a weapon. Also, the 'false edge' on the clipped point allows for backslashing techniques like a saber.
I think though that the ''clipped point' was more to increase the knife's utility as a hunting knife than strictly as a weapon. Of course it also makes it easier to puncture or stab.
The caption under the picture in wikipedia says:
"A typical bowie knife, with its hallmark large blade and unique shape. This knife became popular because of its utility as a weapon and as a tool for camping, fishing and hunting."
I understand your point about the Bowie knife probably not being the 'best' choice for hunting/ camping applications due to it's large size. This was pointed out when someone mentioned that knives this big tend to get lost easier when bending down, etc.
Most 'Survival' knives tend to look like Bowie knives though, perhaps just because the Bowie knife is an excellent design and functions in a wide range of applications. -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Sun, November 19, 2006 - 3:09 PMThe smaller versions of the Bowie knife are great utility blades. -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Mon, January 1, 2007 - 10:37 PMIf I may add a few things here, even if the last posting is over a month ago. Long ago I was a police officer, and if we found a switchblade on a person who was NOT being arrested, we confiscated it and snapped off the blade. Most the blades I confiscatted were cheaply made and snapped off easily.
The father of college roomie of mine was in the OSS during WWII. And while his son found war tales boring, I found them fascinating. Some OSS operatives carried switchblades, but preferred a sleeve dagger because they wouldn't pop open if bumped. He believed the first switch blades were made in northern Italy in the late 1700's and were perfected by the Swiss in the 1800's. These were expensives hand made weapons, used when stilletos and openly carried blades were going out of style.
A knife maker friend of mine made himself a bowie knife and found it to be an effective camping tool for the type of camping he does...which is more primitive that what most of us do. He could split kindling with it, skin larger animals, and use it like a meat cleaver. It's nearest modern cousin is the Tracker, designed by Tom Brown jr. and now manufactered by TOPS. I happen to have one and find it quite useable.
Now in Kuwait, my knife maker friend sent me one last knife before he left the US. It's seems to be a cross between a traditonal Bowie and lighter weight fighting knife. The handle is thin and comfortable, makes for a decent camp knife, though I won't be cutting wood with it, and is comfortable to carry on the somewhat mean streets of Richmond Ca.
In my pocket I carry an assited opening Swiss Army knife lock blade, which evolved from their Nomad model, now discontinued.
Because it is a gift from my daughter, it tends to be my favorite.
Doc
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Tue, February 20, 2007 - 8:44 AMA wise man once said, "Anything you put in your hand is a tool, anything you put in your mind is a weapon."
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Tue, February 20, 2007 - 10:51 AMHate to beat a dead horse, but I can open my liner-lock knives, with a single hand, just as quikcly as any switchblade can deploy, And if am wrong, it is close enough that the difference is not realistically perceptible by human eyes. And it takes no unique skills to reach that level of proficiency, I assure you. ONly a little bit of practice.
If speed of deployment is not a factor, why assume the possible additional legal consequences of the switch blade?
Also, most switchblades I have seen are just not quality enough, compared to all the wonders that are out there as alternatives. -
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Re: Switchblade vs. assisted opening
Tue, February 20, 2007 - 1:30 PMThe reason I have accepted over the years is not necessarily because of switchblades, but stilettos. And this coming from a poor street kid who had never really had any experiences with knives other than narrowly escaping a knife fight with Norteno's because one kid recognized me as a friend from school... whew!
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